Re: The Price Of Admission. Unacceptable.

[John Charles Broomfield <jbroom@manta.outremer.com>]

(...)
> >  While that organization
> > works well in the Nominet case one might ask why is it that ISPs are the
> > ones who determine domain name policy.  Shouldn't other constituencies
> > on the net have a say about domain names?
> 
>   They are.  Like RIPE for instance.  Didn't you read Heathers post
> closely?  Have you reasearched Nominet throughly?  Doesn't appers that
> you have.  Or this question would not have come from you.

Erm, RIPE is made up basically by ISPs, and anyway, RIPE said (statement
directly from them) that they were in the IP numbers distribution business,
not the naming business. However, they also said that should their members
want RIPE to have a say, then so it would be (and I think that the call was
quite unanimous in that RIPE should get involved). But it IS basically an
ISP organisation. The proportion of non-ISPs (which are basically academic
institutions) in RIPE has gone done, mainly because ISPs have grown like
mushrooms, while there continue to be the same amount of universities in
general.
So, if you're calling for non-ISP constituencies to get a vote, you don't
get a biscuit for suggesting RIPE.

> > CORE, by contrast, is answerable to its members *and* to  PAB/POC.
>   PAB has only advisory possition, therefore no real influence.  SO
> this statment is only half true.  Read your own MoU.

I disagree strongly here. The fact that PAB is advisory means that *in
theory* it could be completely ignored. In practice, it would mean a quick
death to the whole system because of lack of legitimacy (yeah, I know,
you're going to say it's not legit now anyway...)

(...)
> > I imagine that CORE will elect a board, as well.  However, that is
> > for the ISPs and other members to decide, I guess -- it is their
> > organization -- just like Nominet.
>   That is the problem.  It is "There Organization".  That should
> say "OUR Organization".  Everyone that is a Internet user/stakeholder.

I think you're right, I think that CORE is "OUR organisation". And I do
believe that anyone who wants a say in it can have one!
You can have a say through:
-PAB
-IAB
-ISOC
-INTA
-IANA
-ITU
-WIPO
-being a registrar
And of course lobbying any part of the above that you wish!!!
Anybody who REALLY wants to take active part in this is sure to find some
means of doing so.
Now, as far as believing that every internet user is a stake holder in this,
I think that's a bit far fetched. Maybe everybody who wants to register a
domain, but not really many of those will give a damn to be honest.
However, you can go ahead and organise a world-wide election of whatever you
want...

> > Consider your example of democratic process, Nominet.  The members
> > freely elect their board (as CORE will almost assuredly do), but you
> > have to pay $800 to be a member (with CORE you have to pay much more,
> > but that will change to a level similar to Nominet).
> 
>   Well CORE has YET do be a freely elected body. SO your comparison
> is weak here.

The comparison is quite exact. The board of directors within nominet is
democratically elected by the nominet members. Core will probably
democratically elect a board of directors. Where's the flaw?

> > Nominet has no structured way to get policy input from other
> > constituencies.  This is not true for the MoU -- there is a "Policy
> > Oversight Committee" that is selected from a wide range of
> > constituencies.  The structure is such that other representatives can
> > be added, and anyone can join PAB and vote on the PAB representatives
> > to POC -- PAB is explicitly chartered with carrying wide ranging
> > input to the POC.
> 
>   Yes PAB has "Input"  but nothing binding.  Not good enough.

It does have "binding" in that it will get 2 members onto POC. (modification
approved already).

> >  Many POC
> > representatives will be selected through *elections* from their
> > sponsoring organizations (the PAB observers were elected.)
> 
>   PAB members were elected?  Really?  By whom?  Hell I didn't
> get a vote! Ahhhh, but I didn't sigh the MoU either.  Now I get
> it.  Though I have been in the internet software buisness for
> 9 years and involved with the development of the Internet for
> nearly 20 years, if I don't sign the MoU I have no "Input"
> the the DNS name space managment process.  That's wonderful!
> And SOOOOO democratic as well....  Oh boy!

PAB *observers* were elected. And as you may expect, it was PAB who elected
who would be observing on their behalf.
Seeing what a wonderful job you've done on the internet software business
these last 9 years, it's evident that you can give your "input" through
various means to more than one of the organisations above mentioned (or even
become part of them).

Yours, John Broomfield.