Re: War of Internet Governance: 1995 - ????

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Kent and all,

Kent Crispin wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Nov 11, 1997 at 04:19:16PM -0500, Jay@Iperdome.com wrote:
> > At 12:49 PM 11/11/97 -0800, Kent Crispin wrote:
> > >Bob's approach suffers from the fact that there is no practical way to
> > >implement it, because of crucial missing pieces.  What is missing is
> > >any mechanism to assign legitimacy to one monopoly registrar over
> > >another.  .per, for example, is the 3 letter abbreviation for Peru.
> > >If the government of Peru made a claim for that name, perhaps they
> > >should get it.  Without any *policy* defined the fact that you have
> > >running registries is meaningless.
> >
> >
> > At 12:08 PM 10/22/97 -0400, Donald E. Eastlake 3rd wrote:
> > >There are a infinite number of hypothetical problems you can dream up.  COM
> > >is the three letter ISO country code for the Comoros Islands.  So what?
> >
> > Ditto!
> 
> The point is that the existence of your running registry is just as
> meaningless, just as so what -- for a while I was running a TLD
> called .tld.  As you ditto, so what?

  I could agree that running a registry such as Jay does or you did
is not directly comparable is size and scope to the IANA or NSI, but
as to being meaningless, I can't compleatly agree.  At least it is
up and running the gTLD-MoU/IAHC has NO up and running registry, only
signatories and members of CORE currently anyway.  So in this light
your use of the term meaningless to Jays registry really is a bit
extream.
> 
> > >> eDNS was a response to the IAHC final draft.  Now that the IAHC has
> > >> redefined their role to that of a super-registrar, eDNS is no longer
> > >> required for other free-market TLDs (like .per) to be entered directly
> > >> under root!  As we've argued all along, we have as much right for our
> > >> TLDs to be added as the so called IAHC does, if not more.
> > >
> > >You can argue all you like.  You don't have IANA's signature on any
> > >document, unlike the IAHC, nor were you appointed by the IANA to come up
> > >with a solution, like IAHC was.  If you want to get a policy defined you
> > >are going to have to get that policy recognized by IANA.
> >
> > A fundamental question is why the IANA, a U.S. Government
> > funded contractor, should be allowed to "give" seven new gTLDs
> > to its self-selected representatives.
> 
> That was its function.  Anway, you can't have it both ways -- you
> can't claim out of one side of your mouth that the IANA is
> illegitimate, and insist out of the other side that it recognize your
> TLDs.

  That depends on how you look at it Kent.  If the IANA is acting in
contrast to it's contract, it has just acted in an illigitimate
manner, yet it does control the most broadly seen ROOT on the internet.
So his insistance may seem strange, but it is at least honest.  I am
not sure at this point in time that the actions of the IANA are.
> 
> > (especially when it was
> > negotiated behind closed doors, sets up a Swiss-based cartel,
> > ignores prior Internet precedents, and is generally regarded
> > as an inappropriate power grab).
> 
> Please don't waste my time with this garbage propaganda.
> 
> > Why should the IANA be
> > allowed to *exclude* already operational TLDs and registries.
> 
> I ran .tld for several weeks -- just a minute -- I'll set it up again
> -- OK, now I have an operational registry for .TLD.  According to
> your logic, IANA has no right to exclude me.  Fabulous.
> 
> > Consider for a moment if Reed Hundt, as head of the FCC, had
> > decided to allocate a portion of the radio spectrum to a group
> > that he formed, supported, appointed members to, and had an
> > ongoing and permanent role in.  Imagine if this group met behind
> > closed doors, came up with an impressive sounding plan, and got
> > all of his friends and associates to sign.  Imagine if this new
> > plan took radio spectrum away from already operational entities,
> > and excluded all other applications for radio spectrum.  Imagine
> > if this new organization was set up as a Swiss-based cartel.
> >
> > Well, this is similar to Jon Postel's arrangement with the IAHC.
> 
> No, it isn't.  Jon Postel's "authority" stems entirely from his
> acceptance by the network community.  It is a FACT that his authority
> is based on community acceptance and consensus, not legalities.  It is
> also a FACT that eDNS does not have community acceptance and
> consensus, and therefore has no authority.

  eDNS has some small amount of community acceptance all be it 
very small in contrast to the IANA and Jon Postal.  

  In addition your comments here seem a bit against a "Working 
together attitude", which is what the internet was founded on and
still partly operates on now.  Why?  
> 
> > It was wrong when it was announced, and it is still wrong now.
> 
> Jon's authority really boils down to what the people who run the root
> servers do.  The bottom line is, they pay attention to Jon Postel, and
> they don't pay attention to you.  Jon has credibility and a reputation
> for integrity that has been built up over many years.  You don't have
> either.

 I wouldn't make that bold of a statment about Jay, unless you are
compleatly aware of his integrity.  Are you?  How long have you
Known Jay?  What do you know about him?  Or me?  Or nearly anybody
on this list to make such a statment?  Little I suspect.  I know 
Jon, and respect him.  Although his haylo is biggining to slip
in some of his recent statments (Read Congressional Hearings of late).
> 
> And all indications are that Jon's repution for integrity is
> well-justified.  So spare me the "it was wrong" propaganda.

  Indications are fine.  What about Proofs?  Got any first hand?
> 
> --
> Kent Crispin                            "No reason to get excited",
> kent@songbird.com                       the thief he kindly spoke...
> PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
> http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html

regards,
-- 
Jeffrey A. Williams
DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java Development Eng.
Information Eng. Group. IEG. INC. (Soon to be INEG. INC) Stay tunned! 
Phone :913-294-2375 (v-office)
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com

Wisdom:   "One who knows others is wise,
           one who knows himself is enlightened."
           Lao Tzu