Re: Break in Hostilities

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Kent and all,

Kent Crispin wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Nov 11, 1997 at 07:34:18PM +0000, Bob Allisat wrote:
> > Kent wrote:
> > > You can argue all you like.  You don't have IANA's signature on any
> > > document, unlike the IAHC, nor were you appointed by the IANA to come
> > > up  with a solution, like IAHC was.  If you want to get a policy
> > > defined you are going to have to get that policy recognized by IANA.
> >
> >  IANA is Jon Postel. And I, as
> >  a Canadian citizen, have in no
> >  way shape or form sanctioned,
> >  elected or had any say in this
> >  fellow's appointment as Internet
> >  Dictator for life.
> 
> Bob, I have never met Jon Postel, probably you haven't either.  It
> really doesn't matter what you think, or what I think.  What matters
> is that the people who run the root servers think.

  Pardon me for jumping in here Kent.  But I think that I see a flaw in
your logic, or at least it should be a flaw.  WE, the american People
run the root servers, sience WE, the amreican people paid for almost
all of them.  So WE, the american PEOPLE should have authority to
require the IANA to put whatever gTLD's in the ROOT that WE, the
American People believe should be on those servers and in the Zone file,
Not Jon Postal, himself.  Jon, should advise us which TLD's should
go into the ROOT, yes, but not dictate.  THat decision should be left
up the that section of the Amercian People, and those outside, with
the American People's guidance, which are Internet stake holders.
This principal cannot be overlooked.  And I hope it won't.  But if
it is, than the courts from The U.S. will make the final decision,
along with the Internet Community, Not Jon Postal, Not the Root
server operators.  
> 
> >  And even if
> >  Postel "decides" to exile Internet
> >  governance from his own nation,
> >  for it's own good, I still had
> >  absolutely *NO* say in this process.
> 
> That's simply not true.  You have had plenty of say, and you are
> continuing to have your say -- your mail message is incontrovertible
> proof of that.  You and everybody else who cares a fig about this
> stuff have had enormous opportunity to have their say.

  Agreed.  But most of what has been said, has been either outright
ignored (See Dave Crockers posts for instances about ignoring), or
have been met with antagonistic allogations of one type or another
from those that drafted the IAHC draft and the gTLD-MoU.  This
is indicitive of lack or listening.
> 
> >  Are you all forgetting about democracy
> >  and the rule of law?  Or do you think
> >  it only applies to your humble net_god
> >  carcasses and not the rest of the
> >  people who may not share your views?
> 
> Just because you get your say doesn't mean that you get your way.
> That's something we try to teach our kids, isn't it?

  True enough.  And I agree compleatly.  However lack of reasonable
compermise is also something I teach my kids as well.  Don't you?
> 
> >  I have been advocating rebellion as
> >  the only sane alternative to being
> >  railroaded into some new form of net
> >  hegemony. As the only response reason-
> >  able netizens have to domination and
> >  oppression.
> 
> "Domination and oppression"? This is just flat-out crybaby nuts, Bob.
> The city doesn't let you name your own street.  You don't get to
> assign your own street numbers.  Civilization has a myriad of things
> you can't do.  Civilization depends on infrastructure, and the net
> depends on infrastructure.  And it is clear that the net
> infrastructure simply cannot cope with everybody getting their pet TLD.
> I'm not just talking about DNS -- the human complexity of managing who
> gets what is off the scale.

  I think that you misunderstand what Bob means.  I doubt that he
is talking about everyone getting their own little pet TLD.  We have
had this topic of discussion several times I believe.  But to only
admit 7 new gTLD's is simply to silly to even be considered
reasonable.  Yes, I know the restriction on only 7 new gTLD's
was lifted, but if this is truely to be the case, why not allow
.PER or some of the other RSC TLD's into the ROOT as well at the
same time.  With a reasonable restriction as to how many of 
course.
> 
> >  In order to avoid this
> >  insurection I have counselled peace
> >  talks and conciliation among all of
> >  the belligerants.
> 
> I don't think of myself as a belligerent, to tell you the truth.  I
> find the low integrity debating tactics of Duane and some others very
> distasteful, and sometimes I blow off frustration.  You, on the other
> hand, are straightforward and consistent, even if you are misguided :-)
> 
> >  Will you, Kent, be
> >  the first to stop the headlong rush
> >  to conflict and sit down at a table
> >  of your collegues to compromise?
> 
> I don't see a headlong rush to conflict.  Instead, I see serious
> momentum in the development of CORE.  I think at some date early next
> year CORE will have a functioning registry, IANA will distribute a new
> root zone file, and those names will start resolving.  I could be
> wrong, of course.  But there are close to 90 registrars, which means
> they have close to a million dollars seed money, and those registrars
> will work very hard to defend what they paid for.

  As will the RSC's I have no doubt.  In court if necessary.
> 
> While it is flattering that you might think otherwise, a compromise on
> my part would be totally meaningless.  I don't represent POC/PAB/CORE,
> and if I tried to stand in their way I would be swept aside.  For the
> next few months I think the birth of CORE will be the focus of
> attention, in any case.
> 
> >  In
> >  Toronto. As soon as possible. In a
> >  nuetral, public place. With everyone
> >  else welcome and open to change.
> >
> >  This is a direct question asked with
> >  respect and candor. I would appreciate
> >  a direct and honest reply.
> 
> In light of my above comments, and also in light of the fact that I am
> not made out of money and trips to Toronto aren't free [I live in
> California], I must decline.  However, I will be at the Washington, DC
> IETF in December, and if you happen to be in that area at that time, I
> would be happy to buy you a beer.
> 
> --
> Kent Crispin                            "No reason to get excited",
> kent@songbird.com                       the thief he kindly spoke...
> PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
> http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html

Regards,
-- 
Jeffrey A. Williams
DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java Development Eng.
Information Eng. Group. IEG. INC. (Soon to be INEG. INC) Stay tunned! 
Phone :913-294-2375 (v-office)
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com

Wisdom:   "One who knows others is wise,
           one who knows himself is enlightened."
           Lao Tzu